Luckily (or maybe not), I did it all again! Most of the others in my research group have done post-docs and stayed put, taking on junior faculty positions about three years after they began at their respective institutions. I realized in September, 2006, that I didn’t want to stay here.
On my drive home a couple weeks ago, I rolled down the window on a country road that had been reduced to a single lane over a bridge that was being repaired. Chienne doesn’t like to stop without being able to explore, so I compromise and roll the window down so she can stick her white nose and floppy ears out the window and sniff. She enjoys this very much.
I glanced in the rearview mirror as I leaned over to pat her as the window eased downward and was wearing a grimace. I despise the pervasive heat and humidity that defines every day of my life here in the south, and though I expect it, I greet it with uniform displeasure. I eased closer to the open window when I noticed the air coming in was not hellishly hot and heavy, but cool. It smelled of freshly cut grass and oncoming rain, and there was a hint of exhaust from the construction equipment busily working as we waited our turn to cross the bridge.
I opened my window, resisted the urge to stick my nose and newly cut above the shoulder hair out the window like the dog, and breathed in deeply. My mood was instantly lighter with eager anticipation for fall. But I don’t want to wait until it creeps down to me. I want breaks from the heat, the early arrival of the turning leaves and cooler temperatures, bitterly cold winters that make your ears and nose hurt then go numb. So I looked at Chienne as our lane of traffic started to move, but left the windows down as we proceeded north.
“I want to go home.” I told her, and decided that when my second year is up, I will depart my southern city. This is a big deal, and is causing me a small amount of worry, but I believe it's right.
"I am proud of you, you know," Friend offered the other day when I acknowledged she must be disappointed in my job decision. She shook her head and said she predicted I'd go north and when I blinked at her in surprise of her proud declaration, she paused before elaborating. "You wanted something and you went out and got it." I nodded, thinking that despite it taking another year - I'm leaving after 3 years in my current spot - I did get back home. It just took some time. Interestingly enough (well, to me), the job search started on the east coast and ended on the west. This was despite being highly focused on the middle part of the country - I mostly skimmed locations on job boards and exclusively read those that fit my geographic criteria. So I'll offer links if you've further interest, but here's the job search, summarized neatly.
Interview I
- When? October, 2007
- Where? East Coast
- Who? industry (different company than Industry). It was an R&D position.
- How? An email went out to a small workgroup on campus. I replied, a headhunter called and I went to interview.
- What? We mutually agreed the fit was unsuitable, though they said so first.
- When? December, 2007
- Where? Midwest - excellent location.
- Who? University - The Faculty Interview
- How? Advisor did a post-doc for Director and knew he was looking. I sent an inquiry email to him about a post-doc and he invited me to interview for their faculty spot.
- What? They thought I lacked a particular skill. I thought they wanted a whole hell of a lot from this candidate. I did, however, love the people and location and wanted the job. After being rejected for faculty, we discussed a post-doc. I kept the idea in reserve, but happily abandoned it when Industry said yes.
- When? Didn't happen.
- Where? Midwest - another good location.
- Who? Another good university - a post-doc in a related area.
- How? Saw the posting, applied, heard back within 2 days that I could have the spot if I wanted it.
- What? It wasn't a good job. She wanted someone to work and train people, earning several middle author spots. It would have been a huge pay cut and I thought it was more a tech spot than independent research (which would have been fine - I just wanted more money to do it). So I canceled the interview and told her I thought I should pursue other options. Last I heard, she was still looking.
- When? Didn't happen.
- Where? Southeast - moving away rather than closer to home.
- Who? A different excellent university - a faculty spot with an excellent group.
- How? Advisor interviewed for, got and turned down a faculty spot. He recommended me to the search committee.
- What? I loved the chair of the department. I would have been good at the job. Yet I declined an offer to visit because it was too far away. This hurt for a long time - when it was looking like employment offers might end up totaling zero, this decision gave me a couple bad moments.
- When? March, 2008
- Where? One of my favorite cities, Midwest
- Who? University - the Pseudo-Academic Job I so wanted.
- How? I applied online. Carrie knew a member of the search committee - I've collaborated with her and her boss, who is a big deal to this particular scientist. Plus, I was really right for the job. I think.
- What? I finally got an email from HR - "Dear Applicant, We went another way. Sorry and thanks." Not Impressed - I still wrinkle my nose when I think of how they handled this one.
- When? April, 2008
- Where? Midwest - a place soon to be called home.
- Who? Industry.
- How? I saw a job posting in grad school and was invited to interview. I didn't get it, but when I saw the job open up again, I emailed people who remained in my address book. Then I pushed - emailed and called and waited. Repeat. And repeat. And repeat. I finally convinced Adam - who met me before but was promoted - to bring me in to interview.
- What? I was hugely thrilled to get it. I was less thrilled to take it. But there's a lingering feeling of having made the right decision. I'm happy.
- When? May, 2008
- Where? Midwest - right near the place I'm soon going to call home.
- Who? Small start-up.
- How? I was panicking by May. I had a group of people who knew I was worried - a couple of them immediately emailed me this job posting when it appeared. I wrote an email telling the CEO that my friends and I thought I'd be perfect for the job. He called a couple days later and we talked.
- What? I'd already been offered the Industry job and took huge security over big risks. Which is cool and I'm absolutely fine with the decision. But I am supposed to call CEO once I get settled and meet for dinner - I believe he thought me charming.
- When? June, 2008
- Where? California
- Who? Drug Company
- How? I collaborated on a clinical trial. A position opened, Eve liked working with me and asked me to visit. I was flattered so I went.
- What? This was heartbreaking. I loved the job, the people and the offer. The location was wrong. And, upon further thought, I think I'll learn more and be much more challenged with the job I took. But it was a lovely feeling to be wanted. I'll always have a soft spot for this company and group.
- Work the network. From beginning to end, I let people know I was looking. My graduate adviser was particularly helpful in this regard - it made me glad we mended fences after the defense debacle. But Boss and colleagues and friends all kept looking and passed along information. Keeping Eve in the loop got me an interview and offer.
- Know the wants. This was hard for me. I waffled a huge amount, but came back to center - I want home. I don't want to do independent research, though I reserve the right to change my mind. (I don't expect it to happen.)
- Have back-up plan. As far as limiting options as much as I did - in terms of geography and by not looking hard at another post-doc, it did get scary. I can't say I'd do this exactly the same given another shot at it, though I feel blessed and lucky and grateful it all worked out. The reason I clung to my plan was that a friend offered me a spot in a lab she just took over. So I held that in reserve and decided to wait out the options I wanted.
- Want it? Ask. Whether it's an interview sooner rather than later or coffee after your fifth meeting while you're visiting, I started to display confidence and expected people to take my desires into account. They started to respond to me differently.
- Hang in there. It's a long process for some of us. I suggest writing blog posts, drinking, baths and lots of naps while passing the time.
13 comments:
I have no tip. I've never really interviewed for anything in a correct fashion (both the interview with my MS advisor and the one with my PhD advisor were jokes. And it's not like there is anything to negotiate either).
But I'm taking them... My university has a series of workshops on academic careers this summer and I am planning to attend, so as to be prepared to start attacking the real search before the "what am I going to do with my doctorate" panic strikes. Of course things won't work the same way in Europe as whatever I'll be told in any workshop here and it's going to be a huge case of doing what I feel is appropriate...
But, yeah, the confidence tip. I've told most of my friends in search for a job things like "You are an engineer, you went to one of the best schools in the country, you're qualified for the job, just go make sure the job is qualified for you" but when it comes to putting it to practice myself... oh well. We'll see.
It's a long process for some of us. I suggest writing blog posts, drinking, baths and lots of naps while passing the time.
It is, perhaps, worth considering the idea that one might actually continue to do the job one is being paid for while searching for the next one.
What type of Industry position is it (your post implies it is not R&D?)?
Citronella:
You'll be great when the time comes - I have no worries at all for you.
PhysioProf:
I don't work for you. I actually make a decent salary and get time off - it's delightful. If your people don't have time to drink, bathe or nap, I think you're doing something very wrong.
Anon:
I've been vague, I know - it's one of those odd things where I don't know how to tell enough without giving too much information. But, no. It's not R&D. I'll be working in the business sector and interacting with various researchers. But I won't personally be doing research anymore - just trying to figure out how to use it to make money. (Which makes the job sound kind of dirty, but it's actually a really cool position. I'll get to meet external collaborators, keep up with the newest advances and work to make sure the company benefits from those findings.)
I don't work for you.
Very true.
I actually make a decent salary and get time off - it's delightful. If your people don't have time to drink, bathe or nap, I think you're doing something very wrong.
Who said anything about how much time the people who work for me have to do any of these things?
Your use of the phrase "while passing the time" implies a paucity of things to fill the days while on the job search. If that is not the case, then perhaps this was a poor choice of words.
If you don't like my choice of words, might I suggest a number of other blogs to read out there?
thanks for summing it up. I've read all about it during these last couple of months but I clearly missed a few earlier ones.
I am starting to feel panicky... but I try to tell myself all will be good... or at least semigood soon. I have yet to go for an interview and I haven't heard too many positive things (unless you count "you have a brain since you're a phd"...) but I'm hanging in there.
Actually, when I get home tonight after work I'll write some follow up emails and see what happens.
Good luck with the move and hope you feel fine in the new place!!
Anon:
I've been vague, I know - it's one of those odd things where I don't know how to tell enough without giving too much information. But, no. It's not R&D. I'll be working in the business sector and interacting with various researchers. But I won't personally be doing research anymore - just trying to figure out how to use it to make money. (Which makes the job sound kind of dirty, but it's actually a really cool position. I'll get to meet external collaborators, keep up with the newest advances and work to make sure the company benefits from those findings.)
So maybe it was YOU who got that job I applied for but never heard back from! :) I'm in your boat, just haven't had many interviews (or submitted many applications). Your position sounds like it's up my aisle.
Chall:
I felt panicky a lot. But sending emails or making phone calls always helped (at least a little).
Anon:
Had I not known people who were hiring (and therefore had email addresses and phone numbers to get past the 'apply online!' wall), I would have never even gotten an interview. This is one of those things where there are many people who were qualified to do the job and I happened to push the right people at the right time to get in the door.
I've never liked the 'who you know' concept of job searches, but it seems to have played a big role in mine. So if you can get contact information for somebody in industry, I'd use it (and hang on to it in case something comes up again). And good luck!
... to get past the 'apply online!' wall...
This wall completely sucks. Question: how was your relationship with your postdoc mentor? Did s/he have an idea you were thinking of leaving, and how did they take it? I am (probably) the most experienced and useful member of my current lab, so I would sort of feel bad if I leave for an academic job ... (especially because we are floating on money fumes at the moment, and the productivity is good for his lab). I, unfortunately, am not egotistic enough to leave without any remorse.
Oh, good point. Interviewing does take time and energy (oh, the exhaustion after an interview - even one that's gone well. It leaves me sleeping for pretty much an entire day. But I do have an abnormal affection for sleep.)
First, I'm not so important in my post-doctoral lab. I've done several collaborative projects, but all were outside the department and are wrapped up now (and have been for some time - I'm just trying to push papers through review). I've not been super helpful in training and guiding students - 1. We don't have many and 2. I'm out of the office for interviews and trips (and working from home) a lot. So for me, it was obvious that it was time to look and I did so with the blessing of Boss.
I have more questions than answers for you. How long have you been doing this post-doc? Money and lifestyle are good? It sounds like you're being productive (yay!) and hopefully that's leading to 1st author publications that can help you establish your own lab (if that's your goal). Personally (so take this for what it's worth), I'd let my mentor know I was thinking of leaving and planning to devote considerable time and energy to the process. See if there are procedures you can document or people you can train in the interim. Or perhaps your mentor can come up with some incentives for you to hang around longer.
And let me know what happens, please? Now I'm all curious.
same Anon from the last two posts ...
I had my first phone interview today! Yay! It is not the perfect position for me (by far, actually, due to one technicality), but I don't think HR pointed my application material in the direction of the position I *actually* applied for in the first place! I will write more about my current dilemma(s)/situation, if you are really interested. Want me to post it here?
I'd love to hear about the job search! If you don't have a blog (or don't want to put it there), you're welcome to write a guest post here. I haven't done that before, but there's a first time for everything. :) You're free to email me or continue here in the comments if you're more comfortable with that though. If you want to email me text for front page post though, say the word.
Yay for the phone interview! While I'm hopeful that it put you in contact with good people, even the bad jobs are good practice at interviewing.
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